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Offline Mikey  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, December 30, 2015 12:26:49 PM(UTC)
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Given the recent dearth of good new sci-fi/fantasy after Amazon told me not to scrape their new book list for filtering, I've been re-reading Astlan books one and two.

I very much enjoy reading multiple unreliable narrator accounts instead those of an omniscient third party. It greatly adds to the texture of the world.

What if all those unreliable assumptions about Rupert's origins in book 1 are wrong, even his own?

He wasn't present at his conception. His mother didn't really understand who his father was. One of their neighbours might have seen a dark-skinned man visit, a black cat in the alley the next day, and the rumours would have taken care of the rest.

The rumours would have shaped Rupert's self-image, which is why he started sprouting horns in the early teens. In a different environment, with different neighbours, he could just as well have started manifesting a halo and chicken wings.

The rules about demonic children so many of the players are so certain of, would not apply to demigods, who would have gotten a strong injection of the animus and mana their parent farmed/leeched off their gullible populace.
Offline Dungeon Roomba  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, December 30, 2015 1:58:24 PM(UTC)
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The problem with that is that Rupert said his mother gave him a description of his father, which closely resembles Tom's demon form. Jenn also noted in ITA that there was a family resemblance between Rupert and Tom when Tom first introduced himself as Edwyrd. Tom was concentrating very hard on his previous form, and didn't have the control yet to alter it to more closely resemble Rupert. So they are most likely related in some way. That's not to say they actually ARE father/son, but at least related.

I see where you're going with that, and it's a very interesting concept, I just don't think it's likely in this situation. Not to say it's NOT true. Like you said, we really don't have completely reliable eyewitness accounts of Rupert's conception/birth, so this is all complete speculation at the moment. Just that the anecdotal evidence points to them actually being related.
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Offline Tizzy  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, December 30, 2015 5:42:04 PM(UTC)
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Someone else brought this up recently.

Not sure if it was here, or on Amazon. But I think here.

I think my suggestions was that Tom and Rupert are the same person.

Or maybe, at some point in time, Rupert will use the world gate to go back in time and travel to Earth, marry Tom's mother and she gives birth to Tom.

Sure, T-A-G says that Rupert's origin does not depend on time travel; but as you've noted, there are unreliable narrators. And if you ask me, based on my personal experience and what has really been happening and what T-A-G actually reports...I KNOW T-A-G is an unreliable narrator!

I mean, what possess him to spread rumors about me being a drug dealer? That is flat out libel! If I could find a court with jurisdiction in both your world and the Abyss, I would sue him.

Wish he lived in the UK; you can sue just about anyone there for libel...hey wait...these books are sold in the UK via amazon.uk!

I bet that counts as being published here. I can sue him there for slanderous libel that has compromised my good name!

Offline Dungeon Roomba  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, December 30, 2015 6:00:40 PM(UTC)
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Tizzy, you don't have a good name to slander.

Unless your True Name is good? Why don't you tell us so we can judge? <jiggle>

That being said, I don't remember T-A-G mentioning that Rupert's origins don't involve time travel. Was that on the Amazon boards? i don't go there, so I don't know what's on them.
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Offline Mikey  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, December 30, 2015 6:44:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gelcube Go to Quoted Post
That being said, I don't remember T-A-G mentioning that Rupert's origins don't involve time travel. Was that on the Amazon boards? i don't go there, so I don't know what's on them.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/forum/cd/discussion.html/ref=cm_cd_et_md_pl?ie=UTF8&cdForum=Fx3RI7J5FDSG4QJ&cdMsgID=Mx1Y4VBLEGHF0R5&cdMsgNo=509&cdPage=21&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=TxKNM2O0F9QECC#Mx1Y4VBLEGHF0R5
Offline Tizzy  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, December 30, 2015 6:54:43 PM(UTC)
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See, now I got to make sure the Brits can see you slandering my name on this board so I can sue you!

I have a very good name! I'm very well known and well liked! I am so well liked in fact that people in bars shout my name when I come in to bars! (although I use a different name at my favorite Boston watering hole).

Making my way in the multiverse today, takes everything I've got; taking a break from all my worries, sure does help a lot.
I just want to get away. Sometimes I just want to go where everybody knows my name, and they're always glad I came.

I want to be where I can see that my troubles are all the same, where everybody knows my name!



Offline Mikey  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, December 30, 2015 6:58:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tizzy Go to Quoted Post
... where everybody knows my name!


In the Navy, yes, you can put your mind at ease!
Offline Tizzy  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, December 30, 2015 8:35:47 PM(UTC)
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And while I could sail the seven seas...I'd prefer to stay at the YMCA!

Dancing

Offline Dungeon Roomba  
#9 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2015 2:08:17 PM(UTC)
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<jiggle>

You know, Mikey, I was re-reading ITA, and even though anecdotal evidence suggests Rupert and Tom are related, there's nothing that directly CONTRADICTS your theory, either.

When Rupert is talking to Tom about his childhood, he talks about how he had always been told he's a demon-child, so the thought was in his head. Then he started changing at puberty, but he never let himself completely change. He didn't know exactly how he looked as a demon. His mother gave a description of his father, but on her deathbed, well after he'd started changing, but before he'd completely changed. So yes, according to your theory, he could have influenced his own demon form! Nothing so far (that I know of) directly opposes this. That would be interesting. Rupert not actually being related to Tom at all.
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Offline Tizzy  
#10 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2015 5:23:29 PM(UTC)
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That is what Tom has been saying all along.

But then, Tom is a demon and as we all know, demons lie. All the time.

Can't trust 'em. There is only one truthful, honest, morally upright and virtuous demon in the Abyss. And that demon has four arms, four legs, is doubly endowed and has a set of really sexy insect wings and one of the best smelling pipes to be found!

Offline Mikey  
#11 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2015 5:34:04 PM(UTC)
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So what happens when someone inevitably tries to bind Rupert? Surely he's been bright enough to give the school an alias?

Let's say he's a demigod, will a binding automatically be the other way, letting Rupert channel mana from the binder?

One of the few non-credible plot points of book 2 is that Tom doesn't spend that much time worrying about Lenamare appropriating his new demon army through their link, which he had already seen and affected once, unlike other demons around him, he clearly believed. Even after he himself worked quite a bit through links.

Sure, if "someone" is mentally controlling him, then it's credible. Otherwise, not so much.

Then again, Lenamare stated that he did have some unnamed first, second and third reich demons. Perhaps one of them might be "named" Tisdale, and that link might not be quite as one-directional as Lenamare believes it to be?

Edited by user Thursday, December 31, 2015 5:36:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Tizzy  
#12 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2015 5:46:33 PM(UTC)
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Antefalken did assure Tom that Lenamare would not be trying to summon him anytime soon. Remember he also had the stolen mana from Tiernon. That was during the cave period.

Once Tom had the Rod of Tommus, I'm pretty sure Lenamare was a lesser concern; if Lenamare tried again (remember Lenamare doesn't know about the D'Orcs or Mount Doom, and even if/when he finds out, he won't automatically assume Tom is in charge of Doom, unless Damien tells him) Tom would be able to use the Rod of Tommus and the Power of Doom to turn the tables.

At this point Tom pretty much is what Lenamare fears him to be.

And, in fact, my bet is that if Lenamare finds out that Tom has a D'Orc army, he will start doing whatever he can to sever the link or shield himself from Tom.

At the moment, Lenamare feels fairly safe because of the wards around the city, which are once more up.
Offline Mikey  
#13 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2015 5:51:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tizzy Go to Quoted Post
Once Tom had the Rod of Tommus, I'm pretty sure Lenamare was a lesser concern; if Lenamare tried again (remember Lenamare doesn't know about the D'Orcs or Mount Doom, and even if/when he finds out, he won't automatically assume Tom is in charge of Doom, unless Damien tells him) Tom would be able to use the Rod of Tommus and the Power of Doom to turn the tables.


I can't remember the text of book 2 conveying quite as self-assured a picture of Tom at that point, but I'll get back to this when I'm re-reading that part.

Where does Tommus keep his Rod? In his pants?
Offline Dungeon Roomba  
#14 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2015 6:13:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mikey Go to Quoted Post
Where does Tommus keep his Rod? In his pants?


<jiggle>

Nooo, that Rod is on display...proudly. No, in THH, Tom started wearing a loincloth/utility belt that he keeps stuff in.
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Offline Tizzy  
#15 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2015 10:56:49 PM(UTC)
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I am not sure he was so self assured as too busy being freaked out by everything else.

You recall he was curling into a ball frequently.

So, he personally, was probably too overwhelmed by the whole 'Heir of Orcus' and a bunch of D'Orcs wanting him to be their leader and return them to glory to even worry about Lenamare.

I think the big thing was that he had taken Lenamare's measure by the end of book 1. Remember the dinner party, and felt more confident about him than the whole Mount Doom thing.

I am told a person can only worry about so many things at once; and only the most urgent gets their attention.

I wouldn't know as that's what my pipe is for.

Don't Worry, Be Happy!

Offline Dungeon Roomba  
#16 Posted : Friday, January 1, 2016 10:25:04 PM(UTC)
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I still say Tom should just yank on that link, jerk Lenamare to the Abyss, and swallow his soul.
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Offline Tizzy  
#17 Posted : Saturday, January 2, 2016 3:44:55 PM(UTC)
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I am thinking he would cause a lot of heart burn. And a lot of gas! Considering how full of hot air he is.

Do you gelatinous cubes ever get indigestion? Given that you guys sort of act like the cleaning crew of the dungeon, sucking up the organic byproducts of various battles (corpses) you probably have a pretty high tolerance, but maybe somethings upset your digestion?

Offline Dungeon Roomba  
#18 Posted : Saturday, January 2, 2016 4:50:12 PM(UTC)
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I've never ate anything myself, but I heard from a distant cousin that it ate the corpse of a lawyer, and it got food poison and couldn't move for a week. Other than that, I've personally digested liche corpses (after they've been "deactivated"), flesh golems, humans, dwarves, elves, basilisks, griffins, and things I couldn't identify, but were still tasty. I've never digested a demon or avatar, though.
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Offline Tizzy  
#19 Posted : Saturday, January 2, 2016 5:10:06 PM(UTC)
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Well that would be hard to do as their bodies disappear from the Planes of Orc (or Man) upon death. Thus they would be empty calories at best.

I could see lawyers causing digestion. As you know, my D'Orc friends do not like lawyers (or diplomats). While I have never met one myself, I've heard that they can be hard to take...

Offline Korwin  
#20 Posted : Friday, January 15, 2016 6:17:48 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mikey Go to Quoted Post
Then again, Lenamare stated that he did have some unnamed first, second and third reich demons. Perhaps one of them might be "named" Tisdale, and that link might not be quite as one-directional as Lenamare believes it to be?

Now that you say it, I'm shure there are some nazi demons around in the abyss.
But I'm not so shure Lenamare has one.... Think
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