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Poll Question : Did you have any out of the ordinary hesitation?
Choice Votes Statistics
  No, just the normal decision process.
11
78 %
  Yes, I thought I might like it, but I wasn't sure.
0
0 %
  It was a toss up, so I decided to give it a try.
3
21 %
  Total 14 100%
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Poll Question : If you had some reservations, what were they?
Choice Votes Statistics
  Price: List price of USD 6.99 too high
0
0 %
  Price: Price match price of USD 5.38 too high
0
0 %
  Cover Art: Content
1
7 %
  Cover Art: Quality
10
76 %
  Description: Didn't sound appealing.
0
0 %
  Didn't like the references to drug use.
0
0 %
  Description: Tom's story not interesting.
1
7 %
  Description: Jenn's story not interesting.
0
0 %
  Description: So so quality of description.
1
7 %
  Description: Tone was rather off for what I like.
0
0 %
  Total 13 100%
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Offline The Author Guy  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, May 13, 2014 2:50:04 AM(UTC)
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Hi,

One thing that comes up in a few of the Amazon reviews is that people who say they really liked the book also say they were hesitant to purchase it or had some reservations.

I am curious about this.

Obviously I completely get the not interested, or doesn't sound interesting to me thing. There are lots of books that don't sound that interesting to me.

But for people who are tempted, because it sounds like it's the sort of thing they normally like but are "hesitant" for some reason, I'm interested in the reason why?

In particular for those that get the book and really like it, but had reservations at first. I see this as a "marketing" issue.

If you were hesitant, meaning "I should like this but...I don't know..." and something was holding you back, what was it? I'd like to know if it is correctable. I'm a huge reader, so the story part, I think I get, but I'm a crappy salesman so marketing I don't get.


Obviously feel free to elaborate in a message.

Edited by user Tuesday, May 13, 2014 3:03:57 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Korwin  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, May 13, 2014 4:58:24 AM(UTC)
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Description sucked me in!
Was perfect.
Offline Pandemonius  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, May 13, 2014 5:26:15 PM(UTC)
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It's an awesome book with just the right amount of humor, action, and, well I don't know, everything?. I think the cover just makes people unsure. I share my amazon account with my family and didn't want them to be thinking I'm reading something evil books just because they see the cover I'm reading on their kindles and they jump to conclusions. The second cover doesn't matter as much since the readers will already be hooked. The second book will probably bring in more readers though. Anyway, I like the first books cover but it might lower the number of buyers since it shows a demon which is normally associated with being evil. So the cover kind of doesn't capture the book for the biggest crowd that will enjoy the book. I am so glad I got the book and I want others to get the chance to read it! Angel In summary, the cover art is good. It just makes buyers unsure.
Offline The Author Guy  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, May 14, 2014 12:30:27 AM(UTC)
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Hmmm good point on the cover.

That thought had crossed my mind.

In a previous millennia, as a lad, shortly after the first 3 books of Thomas Covenant had been published, the first editions were all quite colorful, but on the back, above the description was a box with a black border and a gold background that contained a blurb quote from some reviewer saying something that the book "was one of the best works of adult fantasy in many years"

I really wanted to read the books and I went to the bookstore many times and peered at them. But I was too scared my mom or dad would pickup the book and read the back and think I was reading pornography!

I eventually, after several months, got the courage to get the first one and just kept it very "buried" with my other books, I'm sure they never saw the back cover...

Of course, it wasn't porn, just seriously negative and depressing and definitely not Young Adult so I'm sure that's what the guy meant but at the time...

Thanks...
Offline Maou  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:44:25 AM(UTC)
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Personally I felt that the art seemed to come from multiple formats in a very limited space.
Offline Korwin  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, May 14, 2014 4:58:13 AM(UTC)
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Had no problem with an Demon being on the Front page,
but the foot (it is a foot, right?) is confusing me every time I look at the picture.
Offline nilrem  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:16:07 PM(UTC)
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i think the cover (toms feet(?) aside) and description are fine if you (like me) are looking for something more original away from mainstream fantasy.
while the cover isnt especially well done it does get the main theme across (demons).

i read quite a bit and iam now at a point where i sometimes get sick to my stomach by some of the fantasy "literature" out there.
when i read the description for into the abyss i was pleasantly surprised because it seemed refreshingly different, almost custom-made for me.

so while the description may not convince your average fantasy reader, it probably will convince those who have had enough of tolkien, jordan, etc.
Offline The Author Guy  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, May 14, 2014 3:39:03 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
Maou>Personally I felt that the art seemed to come from multiple formats in a very limited space.


Can you elaborate? Not sure I follow.

Yes, it's his hoof...and you are not the first to comment; before release I was showing it to a friend, and he said the same thing so I redid it, and believe it or not it's better. I don't see it, but I think the reason is that I know what I'm looking at having seen the image in 3 Dimensions.

It is odd that once my friend saw "working" images of the entire scene from other angles, he mysteriously stopped noticing the foot so much.

I think this tells us something about how the brain interprets things. People seeing the foot "cold" so to speak may interpret it vary differently.

Which means, as something that presents a "cold opening" it's a problem. If you have to know what you are looking at when you first see it. It's not doing its job. Thanks...that helps.


In terms of the description etc. I myself was feeling very burnt out by the classic fantasy "tropes" and wanted to write something for people who had "read it all, one too many times" and wanted to turn the story on its ear.

So I take a lot of liberties and assume that most readers have "been there, done that" and like to see the board shuffled. It's key in my mind, to play by the "rules of the genre" but to take a really experienced and more objective look at it.

So for me, it's hard to be objective to understand how people outside this group might interpret it, since I'm firmly ensconced in the "read too much fantasy" category.
Offline eugene2k  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, May 14, 2014 9:26:18 PM(UTC)
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Hmm... While the cover could be better, the demon on it was what actually attracted my attention. Had it been some abstract sigils/glyphs on the cover as many fantasy books have I might've missed the book while browsing amazon. Hell's an interesting theme to me.

P.S. But the hoof and the lamb head have to go...

Edited by user Wednesday, May 14, 2014 9:27:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline The Author Guy  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, May 14, 2014 9:35:32 PM(UTC)
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OMG "the lamb head"

I never saw that or thought of that or anything, but now that you say that...I can totally see it.

I'd love to say something like the head looks that due to symbolism: "Tom was an innocent, condemned to hell as a sacrificial lamb for the betterment of all demonkind"

Or something good and cheesy like that...but it was/is a total accident...

d'oh!
Offline eugene2k  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, May 14, 2014 9:40:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: jerry Go to Quoted Post

I'd love to say something like the head looks that due to symbolism: "Tom was an innocent, condemned to hell as a sacrificial lamb for the betterment of all demonkind"


You don't have to. I already thought of that :D
Offline eugene2k  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, May 14, 2014 9:44:39 PM(UTC)
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Oh, hey, let me say another thing that you probably never thought of. Every time I look at the scales on the hooves I'm thinking: "Why the hell is this demon wearing pantyhose like a transvestite hooker?"
Offline Maou  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, May 14, 2014 11:21:57 PM(UTC)
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I did find this novel somewhat refreshing. The formerly human protagonist gets over his obsession about no longer being human and killing hostile humans very quickly. He might not enjoy it, but at least he doesn't let most of his enemies live to try and kill him again. Tal is a really nice guy, but if Tom had met him later he likely would not have tried to reason with him as he a headstrong zealot who fully believes in his mission. He hasn't forgotten who he was, but he has changed without nearly driving himself insane.
In a lot of novel a human or formally human protagonist will choose to side with a humanity that is either actively shunning or hostile to them. Humans might have been or are currently the worst of the races and everybody else just wants revenge. Then the hero who should want the same chooses to save them, despite the fact that the world might have been better if they got knocked down a few pegs.
Don't really hate humans, but when any other species or non-Caucasian race often in fantasy steps out of line they are swiftly crushed without remorse or a second thought. Not saying that's always the case, but dark-skinned or nonhuman races always seem to get the short end of the stick. I have no idea where this story is going, but I hope to see lots of death and chaos and maybe progress for humans. A type IV needs the Rod's greatest knight and 3/4 of their forces to suppress by themselves, a strong four, but still a four. Their are hundreds of IV's and and 100+ type V+ so clearly the demons have the superior fire power, if they could stop fighting each other. They might work together to kill off all the wizards and burn off all their books that have names in them for a time, but chaos is the only true thing keeping them from overrunning the place. The book obviously has power names in it and possibly a method for controlling and suppressing type V+. Near as I can figure passed on a cryptic conversation.
The hero is not a saint and should not be shown as merciful, strong, and kind. A tolerant strong hero who removes obstacles is fine.
Offline The Author Guy  
#14 Posted : Thursday, May 15, 2014 2:13:58 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: eugene2k Go to Quoted Post
Oh, hey, let me say another thing that you probably never thought of. Every time I look at the scales on the hooves I'm thinking: "Why the hell is this demon wearing pantyhose like a transvestite hooker?"


Ahh...that will be explained in book II Anxious

No...no it won't be explained....I am joking...don't want to freak anyone out....
Offline The Author Guy  
#15 Posted : Thursday, May 15, 2014 2:28:26 AM(UTC)
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Maou,

You hit on some key "framework ideas" I have.

Some of which you won't be able to fully see until later books, but you hit on them here.

1) the value of human life, and how religion affects that
2) the "haves" vs the "have nots" culture/race warfare and discrimination and irrational biases
3) the idea that super powerful entities or countries can just rush in with overwhelming force and solve any problem and impose their "will" and values on others.
4) there is always more than one side to every story
5) everyone is hanging on by the seat of their pants, just trying to do their best to stay afloat (this is how things really work)


Tizzy is going to want you to join some strategy sessions, by the way...
Offline Maou  
#16 Posted : Friday, May 16, 2014 1:17:12 PM(UTC)
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Sure. I'd love to help if you have any requests. Just PM or email me.
Offline Tizzy  
#17 Posted : Saturday, May 17, 2014 3:28:26 AM(UTC)
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Definitely will do. It's war you know.

Going to finally get back at the DemiUrge for kicking...oops...sorry...that's very late Book II, mainly Book III and IV info...

Offline Uuvini  
#18 Posted : Saturday, May 17, 2014 6:39:58 AM(UTC)
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Hello, new here. I did have a kind of "Toss up" reaction. Mainly because of the cover, and the price.

As to the cover, basically a 3d render for a cover says to me that the book is completely self done, the author can't afford a very good artist, and/or they are trying to go with the "quick fix". That then tells me "BAD EDITING!!!! RUN!" However the reviews helped me on that end.

For the price, I just find anything over $5 kind of crazy for a digital book. For a print book sure, $7.99 with most of it going to the publisher, I can see that. But $6 for what looks like a self-published e-book? That just seems a little steep to me. The only reason I decided to give it a shot was because of the page count, and the fact that amazon is really good about refunds.

It turns out I'm glad I did. There were still some of the editing problems, no where near as many as some self-published works, but enough to notice. However the story was intriguing enough, and the characters engaging enough to push through them. I was very satisfied with the length, it's so annoying to pay for a book and then finish it in only a few hours.

Also, as to the length. I saw in one of the amazon discussions talk of going "episodic". I've read books that take that route that I enjoy, but my only warning would be to be sure you can keep up with the timescale you set out on. If you're going to publish 300 pages every 3-6 months, you need to keep with that or you will lose readers. Also this gets into my "It's annoying to pay for a book and finish it in just a few hours" thing. I can finish 300 pages in about half a day or less if I find it engaging enough. This is usually offset for me if the author is good about releasing additions in a timely manner though. However I wouldn't pay more than $2.99 or so for anything 300pages or less. (Btw my favorite author that does this well right now is Niall Teasdale. Each book is pretty short but they come out pretty fast and don't cost too much.)

Well thats it for me. Enjoyed the book, and waiting anxiously for the next installment!
Offline eugene2k  
#19 Posted : Saturday, May 17, 2014 2:58:51 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Tizzy Go to Quoted Post
Definitely will do. It's war you know.

Going to finally get back at the DemiUrge for kicking...oops...sorry...that's very late Book II, mainly Book III and IV info...



Stop Tizzing you bastard! I'm weeping bloody tears here because I can't get my hands on the second book right now :D
Offline Anskier  
#20 Posted : Saturday, May 17, 2014 6:45:05 PM(UTC)
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For me it was three things: The cover, the price, and the description

First the cover. It is a mixed bag, on one hand it is colorful and draws the eye. On the other the demon isn't very good, and looks like a generic render. Most of all though it evokes images in my mind that this is a bad D&D campaign that someone slapped into eBook format and put it on amazon

Next the price. It made me hesitant to pay that much for a first time self publisher author.

Last the description. It is mostly about the pot he smoked in the beginning and was never mentioned again, it makes a small plot point seem like a major part of the story. While I don't have anything against that in and of itself, that makes it leave the impression that the story is targeted to a very YA audience with a romance focus.

On the plus side for me was the many positive reviews and the fact I hadn't heard a premise quite like it before and I'm a avid reader. Going from our world to a fantasy one yes, but not kidnapped and turned into a demon.

These are what caught me despite my reservations and I'm glad because I loved the book

Edited by user Saturday, May 17, 2014 6:46:26 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling, etc

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